Comments - The "Discovery" of America? - Indigenous Caribbean Network2024-03-29T01:41:56Zhttp://indigenouscaribbean.ning.com/profiles/comment/feed?attachedTo=2030313%3ABlogPost%3A14929&xn_auth=noI agree with keisha above com…tag:indigenouscaribbean.ning.com,2008-11-27:2030313:Comment:184672008-11-27T02:25:39.183ZJuan Almontehttp://indigenouscaribbean.ning.com/profile/JuanAlmonte
I agree with keisha above comment.<br />
<br />
Keep in mind also that the tainos did defeat the spanoirds. There was a treaty signed between the tainos and the spaniords in 1540 to free the taino slaves. In the island of kiskeya (now known as dominican rep)
I agree with keisha above comment.<br />
<br />
Keep in mind also that the tainos did defeat the spanoirds. There was a treaty signed between the tainos and the spaniords in 1540 to free the taino slaves. In the island of kiskeya (now known as dominican rep) Well, it could possibly have…tag:indigenouscaribbean.ning.com,2008-11-22:2030313:Comment:181792008-11-22T01:24:27.403ZArenahihttp://indigenouscaribbean.ning.com/profile/arenahi
Well, it could possibly have been the same. The idea of "peaceful" and "warlike" is not so clear cut. Oral history says that the Caribs warred against the Arawaks as revenge for the Arawaks keeping them as slaves. This happened far far back in history. This was the reason for their attacks, not because they simply liked war.<br />
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Also, by the time the Europeans got to the Caribs, the Caribs had already gotten word of all the bad things they had done to the Taino, so they defended themselves. If the…
Well, it could possibly have been the same. The idea of "peaceful" and "warlike" is not so clear cut. Oral history says that the Caribs warred against the Arawaks as revenge for the Arawaks keeping them as slaves. This happened far far back in history. This was the reason for their attacks, not because they simply liked war.<br />
<br />
Also, by the time the Europeans got to the Caribs, the Caribs had already gotten word of all the bad things they had done to the Taino, so they defended themselves. If the Europeans went to the Caribs first maybe they would have accepted them since they didn't know what their real intention was.<br />
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We know that at least Fr. Breton who wrote the dictionary was welcomed among the Caribs and he writes of their kindness to him. OKay here it is. I was going…tag:indigenouscaribbean.ning.com,2008-11-21:2030313:Comment:181632008-11-21T20:41:14.786ZRay Osbornehttp://indigenouscaribbean.ning.com/profile/RayOsborne
OKay here it is. I was going to continue it if there was interest.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://indigenouscaribbean.ning.com/profiles/blogs/2030313:BlogPost:10968">Ray's Blog</a><br />
<br />
I ponder sometime about alternative history. For example what if Columbus had not met the peace-loving Taino but encountered the warrior Caribs instead. History may have been very<br />
different.
OKay here it is. I was going to continue it if there was interest.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://indigenouscaribbean.ning.com/profiles/blogs/2030313:BlogPost:10968">Ray's Blog</a><br />
<br />
I ponder sometime about alternative history. For example what if Columbus had not met the peace-loving Taino but encountered the warrior Caribs instead. History may have been very<br />
different. Ray, earlier in the thread yo…tag:indigenouscaribbean.ning.com,2008-11-20:2030313:Comment:180682008-11-20T17:28:36.575ZArenahihttp://indigenouscaribbean.ning.com/profile/arenahi
Ray, earlier in the thread you wrote,<br />
<br />
"I wrote an account of Columbus meeting the first people in my blog here. At the start he held a deep admiration for them. I was going to post more about these two cultures meeting but maybe it might inflame some emotions."<br />
<br />
I think this is what Juan meant.
Ray, earlier in the thread you wrote,<br />
<br />
"I wrote an account of Columbus meeting the first people in my blog here. At the start he held a deep admiration for them. I was going to post more about these two cultures meeting but maybe it might inflame some emotions."<br />
<br />
I think this is what Juan meant. >Ray Osborne's, I would ac…tag:indigenouscaribbean.ning.com,2008-11-20:2030313:Comment:180642008-11-20T16:07:43.507ZRay Osbornehttp://indigenouscaribbean.ning.com/profile/RayOsborne
>Ray Osborne's, I would actually apreciated if you can post it.<br />
<br />
Sorry I am not sure what you want me to post. I lost the thread.
>Ray Osborne's, I would actually apreciated if you can post it.<br />
<br />
Sorry I am not sure what you want me to post. I lost the thread. Ray Osborne's, I would actual…tag:indigenouscaribbean.ning.com,2008-10-18:2030313:Comment:158962008-10-18T01:47:32.402ZJuan Almontehttp://indigenouscaribbean.ning.com/profile/JuanAlmonte
Ray Osborne's, I would actually apreciated if you can post it.
Ray Osborne's, I would actually apreciated if you can post it. Ayesart,
sadly we will never…tag:indigenouscaribbean.ning.com,2008-10-18:2030313:Comment:158942008-10-18T01:46:44.386ZJuan Almontehttp://indigenouscaribbean.ning.com/profile/JuanAlmonte
Ayesart,<br />
<br />
sadly we will never know how our ancestors and other native's would have evolved without the contact.<br />
<br />
I dought that people who had weopons like a macana were that peacefull. I mean even the spaniords feared these weopons. I read many accounts were other indigenous people of south america had macanas and spaniords feared them.But I am sure that many of the weopons were not only use to battle but to hunt. My understanding is that taino was not even a word that our ancestors used to…
Ayesart,<br />
<br />
sadly we will never know how our ancestors and other native's would have evolved without the contact.<br />
<br />
I dought that people who had weopons like a macana were that peacefull. I mean even the spaniords feared these weopons. I read many accounts were other indigenous people of south america had macanas and spaniords feared them.But I am sure that many of the weopons were not only use to battle but to hunt. My understanding is that taino was not even a word that our ancestors used to call themselves. My understading is that they gave themselve that name after columbus made contact. As to separate themselve from the caribs indians.<br />
<br />
I am also sure that many of european accounts of the indiginous peoples of the america's were greatly exaggerated. Our ancesstors were made to look like savages. You know so they can force there religion on them. Just like they have done all over the world.<br />
<br />
You wrote "And why do so many of our people deny their Indian-ness and are so ready to proclaim that they are descended from the conquistador?"<br />
<br />
You know thats a question that cant be answered with just one anwers.<br />
<br />
1)Cause many of us dont know we are indians. the extinction myth. You use to be thought in school and in books. But I am seeing a change in this.<br />
<br />
2) Cause of hollywood. Hollywood makes all indians look the same. From what I seen in fulll blooded indians they themsleves dont fit the hollywood typecast. I seen full blooded indians that had facial hair, that were as light as me. I read that even europeans ( I think it was french) who had seen full blooded indians with hazel eyes.There are more examples but I am sure you guys get the picture.<br />
3)Cause we have spanish surnames, The below was sent to me by a friend who has done some research on this issue.<br />
<br />
Cardinal Francisco Jiménez de Cisneros,in around the 1500s,told Spanish sailors to take census of all the people in there colonies,and the only way to keep count of people was by giving out spanish surnames to the indians and black slaves.so just cause you have a spanish last name does not mean your spanish descent.the british did the same to black slaves.<br />
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Not only that, but the king of spain during the 1500's ordered the spanish in "new spain" to give spanish slave names to their "indian" slaves. Thus the slave owners named their slaves "gonzales", "martinez", "jimenez".. etc after their own spanish names "gonzalo", "martin", "sancho".. etc. Its like if they stamped us with "property of the spanish" on the forehead.<br />
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the spanish did the same thing the same thing to the indigenous people in the southwest US when they reached "california", "arizona", "utah"... etc. which is why they too have spanish slave names, oh and english slave names too as a result of the "indian" schools founded by the english/americans... sick history.<br />
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So unless you have recent admixture from your dad side. I would not be using your last name to trace it back to spain or other eurpeean countrys.<br />
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You wrote. "How many descendants of Taino are out here in the world of humanity. Why is it so impossible for us to come together as a people, one tribe again?"<br />
<br />
Because we are ingnorant. Just like many african american dislike africans, ecudorians dislkike mexcians. We Dominicans, puerto ricans and cubans dislike eachother. When infact we are brothers and sisters.<br />
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Also to many titles. I mean these are diffent times. Even some europeans countrys have done away with the king and queen labes. Tainos we need leader to unify us, regardles what island we come from. For all we know spanirds could have moved us around. A cuban may actually have roots in PR, and puerto rican can have taino relative in dominican rep. That have been separated for over 500 yo. I mean we even have tainos that were taken to spain as servents. There deccendants are probably not even aware of who they are. Unless they kept a family tree records.<br />
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Good questions. I am going to leave it at this as it can be a very long post. Keisha,
Your wrote "Even if…tag:indigenouscaribbean.ning.com,2008-10-18:2030313:Comment:158922008-10-18T01:46:25.196ZJuan Almontehttp://indigenouscaribbean.ning.com/profile/JuanAlmonte
Keisha,<br />
<br />
Your wrote "Even if it was called Hindustan, "h" is not pronounced in Spanish, and India was the name that others called."<br />
Yeah thats the whole point. Hindustan was what they called themselves. Its not a spaniord name. Later on in the 1800's when england invaded they changed its name. In many ways england was like spain. They try to conquered and inslave other countrys. I mean even ireland and the scotish. They have been opressed by england.
Keisha,<br />
<br />
Your wrote "Even if it was called Hindustan, "h" is not pronounced in Spanish, and India was the name that others called."<br />
Yeah thats the whole point. Hindustan was what they called themselves. Its not a spaniord name. Later on in the 1800's when england invaded they changed its name. In many ways england was like spain. They try to conquered and inslave other countrys. I mean even ireland and the scotish. They have been opressed by england. I wrote an account of Columbu…tag:indigenouscaribbean.ning.com,2008-10-18:2030313:Comment:158762008-10-18T00:00:33.419ZRay Osbornehttp://indigenouscaribbean.ning.com/profile/RayOsborne
I wrote an account of Columbus meeting the first people in my blog here. At the start he held a deep admiration for them. I was going to post more about these two cultures meeting but maybe it might inflame some emotions.
I wrote an account of Columbus meeting the first people in my blog here. At the start he held a deep admiration for them. I was going to post more about these two cultures meeting but maybe it might inflame some emotions. I have read the article and t…tag:indigenouscaribbean.ning.com,2008-10-17:2030313:Comment:158272008-10-17T22:26:22.519ZAyesarthttp://indigenouscaribbean.ning.com/profile/Ayesart
I have read the article and the responses to it.<br />
The same issues have made me think a lot for many years. What if the "discovery" never happened?<br />
It has been written that the Taino were on the way to becoming a civilization.<br />
Had they had the chance to evolve would they have held onto their oneness with nature?<br />
In retrospect we all would like to think so.<br />
I have asked another question. If our ancestors were so peaceful why did they have weapons?<br />
Why did they fight against the Caribs?<br />
Then…
I have read the article and the responses to it.<br />
The same issues have made me think a lot for many years. What if the "discovery" never happened?<br />
It has been written that the Taino were on the way to becoming a civilization.<br />
Had they had the chance to evolve would they have held onto their oneness with nature?<br />
In retrospect we all would like to think so.<br />
I have asked another question. If our ancestors were so peaceful why did they have weapons?<br />
Why did they fight against the Caribs?<br />
Then another question arises when I begin to look at our own civilization.<br />
Why do we allow religious systems to send missionaries out into the wilderness to convert and subvert people who live in wild places?<br />
And why do we hate those whose genetics have become an integral part of us?<br />
And why do so many of our people deny their Indian-ness and are so ready to proclaim that they are descended from the conquistador?<br />
If we really wanted to go back to our ancestral ways why then do we buy cars that pollute the air we breathe. Participate within the wastefulness ways of our civilization. Why do we not speak up loudly against the wars that are draining us of our youth and destroying our economy.<br />
Why do we dwell on the past and begin to look to the future.<br />
How many descendants of Taino are out here in the world of humanity. Why is it so impossible for us to come together as a people, one tribe again?<br />
Can it be that we have become a fragmented people.<br />
Can be it that we'd rather be part of an organization instead of a tribe.<br />
Why do we glorify violent sports and those who participate in them?<br />
When we get ill why do we not turn to our ancestor's way of healing by using herbs. Instead we run to the doctor at the first sign of a fever.<br />
And why do we insist on looking upon ancient people through our jaded civilized tinted eyes.<br />
How many of us have tried to work stone to create a tool?<br />
Can we really see through the eyes of our ancestors.<br />
All these questions have made me think alot about my own way of life and how much would I be willing to give up to become like those who came before me.<br />
Ayes