I'm sorry miss but you just utterly and completely contradicted yourself with this post right here.
How can you say that being indigenous is more than just physical traits and then be so rude to Reuben like that? And how do YOU know he may not have native blood in him? Because YOU say he would be offended by all of this? Who died and made you the Judge of everything? And if Juan wants to do tests to find out for sure if he is Indigenous then let him.
In the 2 posts I have read of yours you come off to me as the type of person who thinks that the louder and ruder she talks the more people will listen, but if you havent learned yet that it is completely opposite and people will only listen to you less than you have alot of things you still need to learn.
If somebody is looking for physical features that apply to themselves or a family member that is in NO WAY racist so I have no idea what you are talking about. How can you be racist by showing an interest in who you are? Reuben knows he is of European descent because he was never made to believe Europeans were extinct. For people who do not know for sure if they are Taino or not then maybe these tests are all they have and they want to know. It is really none of your business if someone wants to do that. No one is making you submit to these tests. Why re you so offended. I think the problem lies within yourself and not everyone else.
Thats why Tainos don't post anymore because of replys like this. Max the creator of this site said it best in one of his comments and I will paraphrase.
"white people have a fixation with skull size and that is tiresome, colonial and ultimately racist"
We break it down to newcomers and then they accuse us of being no it alls. It was anthropologist that kept the extinction myth alive only recently with people like Lynne Guitar and Peter Ferbel have things begun to change.
Without anthro's we been saying for years that
WE ART TAINO AND WE ARE STILL HERE
Sometimes the things we say may seem harsh but how would YOU react if somebody wanted to check your teeth or skull and then ask you to disrobe to check for a mancha de platano (ask your husband what a mancha is) like we are some sort of animal.
That body checking was being talked about 20 years ago, most Tainos do not subcribe to that embarassment anymore. Tainos don't subcribe to non Taino standards we have our own and most of it comes from our Ancestral spirit and oral history.
It was our Ancestral spirit and oral history that kept that awareness of our survival despite what people with a huge amount of education were erroneously saying about us. That Ancestral Spirit will always be by are side to guides through all the pitfalls we will encounter.
Brooke comment" you do not need to turn yourself into a guinea pig or lab rat to espouse your indigenous heritage, that is not what being Indian is about, i just want you guys to love yourself enough to not put yourself through this stupid torment and down right humiliation of DNA test or checking for shovel teeth, you are not an animal, an Indian can not be dissected into mere body parts,"
Turning myslef into a guinea pig or lab rat as you wrote is exactly what I have been doing all this time. I have read a lot of stuff at the library, anthropology magazine, online article, forums etc, etc. Seen many of these ameridian/mongoloid traits. Because I and my family have them I needed a Caucasion my friend jimmy (German and irish deccent, who has no admxiutre) that I would use to compare, these traits. As you stated I was dissecting me and my family into body parts, skull, teeth, ribcage, hand, feet etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Down to the pinky and toes, sounds silly but this is what I have been literally doing…............. Jorge Estevez was telling me something similar brooke. But at that time I wasn’t paying attention. I am paying attention now! What you wrote makes a lot of sense. We as a people have to prove our identity almost every day. I guess cause of that I been doing the above.
Danielle and Ruben, Thanx for your support and comments I appreciate them. But brooke is right. You see I have always been aware of my indigenous ancestry. I went to school in DR in the village that both my parents are from. The teacher we had made sure to remind us of who we were, he said your indio’s (Indians) the real people of this continent. My mother has told me on some occasions that we should be proud of our Indian heritage. So I have never had any doughts of who I am. The little taino history that I know comes from this era. You see even in our own territories we are denied our identity. Shit all around the world we have been denied. I beleive I wrote it in my page. That I even bought my first taino book after coming back to the states. The book said taino’s are extinct. So I threw it out. Cause I knew it was a lie. Then most recently meeting Jorge Estevez who I got introduce to the taino resurgence and also threw him I even learned more about my family taino ancestry. Things that are really import about my culture that remained. Even here in this site where tainos from other islands still keep traditions that you would think you would not see somewhere else but then I read taino from boriken and cuba having similar traditions, using the same taino words for places that we use in kiskeya etc etc. Learning that even taino culture, history etc is not a taino thing only. But a native thing that we share with our brothers and sister from other tribes. So you see, I actually dont need a test to tell me about my ancestry I always known. But like brooke pointed out. I am very new to the taino resurgence movement.
And now I understand that what I was doing was the same thing that was done to our ancestors and other Indians during the colonization of our continent.
I know that it will be hard to understand. But keep in mind that we were purposely denied our birthright right from the beginning of the colonization era. This is something not a lot of people are going to understand let along relate too. Till this day it’s still being done.
So brooke, Thank you. So young and so wise.
Looking forward to seeing you, other members and other native’s at the Native American museum for this month social gathering.
Taino Ti I don't have any sort of fixation what so ever with skull size and really no type of fixation with anthropology , and that comment about white people->
"white people have a fixation with skull size and that is tiresome, colonial and ultimately racist"
THAT is what racism really is, grouping a race of people into one category and making assumptions. Here we go again with the contradictions. And ifit was you or the creator who said it, it's RACIST. And by the way I don't believe anyone wanted to check Brooke's teeth. No one on this forum anyway. I believe Brooke was reacting to someone giving me advice on how to figure out if my mother in law was amerindian. See, unlike Juan or any other members of this network who have always known they were indigenous, my husband's family never even thought of the possibility. So what I am saying is that if my family CHOOSES to have a dna test done, that is their choice, one they need to make for themselves. I never said anyone should be FORCED into doing so. But Brooke took things way out of context, and her tone was rude and let's be honest with ourselves. This post in itself was made with the intention to create drama, and she was responding to people with nastiness. While Brooke may be wise, the way she has conducted herself on this post makes me, the "newcomer" (thanks for the label-did everyone label you that when you first joined?) see her as foolish and immature-and if she isnt well she sure has painted herself to be just that. And if you know of other ways I could find out if my son is indigenous, why hadnt you offered me those options? Let's not attack the one guy who tried in an honest way to offer me an answer.
Juan-Like I said before, not everyone has always "known" that they were indigenous. And while I cannot deny that Brooke was right on certain points as I state din my first reply to this post, that doesnt mean she should go about sharing her wisdom by belittling people or being mean, as in when she told someone to "hush up" (how mature) or when she told Ruben to "Get over it, you're not native"(how kind). How does she know that Ruben is not native? Who is to say that one of Ruben's ancestors didnt bring back to Spain indigenous blood? The point is there is a way to point out people's misinformation or misunderstandings and that is with love and patience, and neither of those was what she displayed.
Danielle, thanx for being protective of me very sweet.
But the hush comment I belive was to kacian. They were trying to teach me a lesson. As for Ruben, I know he and brooke have been members alot longer than I have. So I am pretty sure they understand eachother and they are cool with eachother.
Danille I am not attacking or deffending but just going to give you just a bit of history. I know that in the 1940 blood test were taken in DR looking for native blood. In the 1950 they were looking for shovel shaped teeth, Later they were looking for other traits. I belive these test were also done on our sister island of boriken and cuba. Even though they found all these traits they still kept the extinct myth. Recently dna has confrimed once again that in these islands you have some people of ameridian deccent. I belve they have even checked haplo group ( dont know much about it) anyways guess what there are still people arguing that we are extinct. The funny thing is that before any of these test were done you already had taino in all three island identifying as taino.Even thought I am new to the resurgence. In no way is the resurgence new. So I mean when does it end. What more do we have to do?
So I am asking you not to take offence cause it really wasnt meant for you. But I think that our resurgence is not only a taino thing, but its also about educating the world at large about us. So non-tainos do have a part in our resurgence.