Taino Sinners

[Keiahani]

Can we follow Judeo christian tradition while still honoring our Taino Pagan Heritage? or would Tainos be considered sinners in the christian religion?

[adem medina cardona]

in the christian religion you must follow christ and proclaim him as your savior, denying any other gods
if you do not you are a sinner

[Al "Kutubanama" Velazquez]

This question is super loaded, but I can say it's "BALLSY" in your part, in a good way!!! I was brought up as a Catholic, and on my own, I decided to search for my own spiritual path. Religion is man made, as I discovered, but as I discovered in Jewdaism, Christianity, Bhuddism, Hinduism, (The world's oldest Religion), and others, after a long time, I saw that GOD wanted to be seen in a way that different "Tribes" of the world could recognize His message!!! I know this to be so, and I'll be glad to explain this, as well as the diffeence between "Religion" and "Spirituality". Religion is man made, and spirituality, such as the Native Ways, is NOT!!! Christopher Columbus even wrote in his own diaries: "I have discovered the Garden of Eden" in these lands!!! Before Columbus imposed his will, he knew that the "Savage Natives lived in the peace and prosperity Our Lord has commanded us to!!!"

[Al "Kutubanama" Velazquez]

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam for example, have "Holy Books" that were written by man, as a guideline to their beliefs. Native ways have been tought and passed on, generation to generation without a written "Holy Book". Each "Tribe" has done so without any central religious leader or institution. Natives don't need a book to tell us about the Almighty Creator, nor how to live in harmony with creation!!!

[Al "Kutubanama" Velazquez]

It just goes to show you a little of how religion and spirituality are different.

[Keiahani]

Pagan- definition
one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks.
pertaining to the worship or worshipers of any religion that is neither Christian, Jewish, nor Muslim.

In other terms Taino Culture is neither christian, jewish nor muslim. The Taino culture developed in a polytheistic way. I will not be able to separate Taino spirituality from the culture because almost all facets of their culture and lifestyle were immersed or determined by their pagan spirituality. This is why i must include culture into the Pagan spirituality of the Taino.

[Caracoli]

What???? that needs clarification

[Keiahani]

You asked me what i meant by pagan and I gave you the definition. I am really unsure at the points you are trying to get at. My original question since Christianity believes in one god and no false idols or other gods, would christian Tainos be a oxymoron? would we be considered sinners by christian law for practicing a culture that is pagan in nature? I am not adding a christian god into the dynamic of taino culture. I am analyzing conflicts between Christianity and taino culture. Can you follow both? Will Christianity allow this? would tainos be considered sinners?

[Ivy]

Anyone following the Bible would not accept it.

[Caracoli]

you are following your own brand of Christianity

Your Superiors would not agree

[Caracoli]

My Ancient ones were like Ejyptians or people of Kemit

They had a Pantheon Of Gods

The creator God of the Taino was not a jealous God.

Samuel said

"But Tainos have Gods of water, of fire, of earth, were will God place be, because as I know, God is the god of water, earth, sky, fire and all existent, but if there are already gods of what I mentioned, were will God's place be?"

Tainos are not monotheistic!!!

like you said "as I know"

my Taino Ancestors did not see the world like that

A pantheon was needed for them and it WORKED for them

Most Native nations have Pantheon of Gods and they managed pretty well and built great civilizations with them.

John Henrick Clarke

"How did we manage before the conquistadors told us who was God ?
and they indeed told us who was god
And they gave us an image that looked like them
For all the times on this earth our Gods looked like us and had a name that came out of our language."

"Is he less God because we call him YaYa, Yocahu or call her Atabey or Itiba Cahubaba ?"

"They are not less"

These words I paraphrased from the great African Scholar

The late John Henrik Clarke

I hope it helps

[Ivy]

Uh oh, here we go...lol Can we follow Judeo Christian tradition while still honoring our Taino Pagan heritage without being considered sinners in the Christian religion? NO. They make it pretty clear that Christ has to be your one and only savior and that worshipping "false idols" is a sin. But what most Christians don't know is that all of these contemporary holidays that are celebrated today have Pagan roots. They were "dressed in Christian clothes", much like the slaves in Cuba and other parts of the Caribbean hid their Orishas under the disguise of Catholic saints. Ever wonder what putting a tree in the middle of your living room had to do with the birth of Christ? Or what bunnies and colored eggs have to do with Christ's resurrection?

[Ivy]

I'm talking about the way Christians celebrate their holidays today. (Christmas, Easter, etc.) Those holidays that they celebrate aren't even Christian at all!