Taino Sinners

[Keiahani]

Can we follow Judeo christian tradition while still honoring our Taino Pagan Heritage? or would Tainos be considered sinners in the christian religion?

[Ivy]

"Christmas" is a Pagan holiday that existed long before Christ that celebrates the return of the sun to the Earth. That's why it falls on December 25th. No one even knows when Christ was born. And Easter is a Pagan holiday that celebrates the Spring Equinox, hence the eggs and bunnies which represent fertility.

[Caracoli]

There was never any evidence of an exodus in ejypt

This is well known

There was even a tv special on one of the learning networks that presented that

[Caracoli]

The Ejyptians kept records, The time of the exodus was doing the reign of Rameses which was the best in recording the goings on in Kemit

There is no mention of Jews leaving ejypt.

Time for more study

Do the research

This has been known for at least 20 years

[Caracoli]

perhaps not

Its ok to do the research

you should learn truth

[Caracoli]

Uh oh, here we go...lol
lol Ivy

I agree also the Conquistadors would build their Church's on Sacred native grounds

How about the symbolic cannabalism in the communion ceremony ?

There are alot of contradictions but for me

I say Yes

[Caracoli]

Wait For Brother Cibanex Monsanto & Sha King

they will clear it up for you

I really don't bother with these things any more

one can waste a lifetime talking about extinction myths, y chromosones, Dna, admixture

imposed religions

its a loss lose situation

I am Taino Centric and I work on Tribal restoration and continuity

Han Han Katu

[Caracoli]

I like Sha Kings phrase

For me its better to have understanding than to be understood

Peace!

[Ivy]

I think the answer to Brooke's question is pretty obvious and I think she knows the answer, too, right Brooke? ;)

[Rixturey]

Wow, what a loaded question. But I had to respond. I will begin as a traditionalist would say — if I offend you in any way please forgive me because I am only speaking from my truth and experience.

According to what I have experienced, read, learned, thought about, etc., in the native Caribbean tradition, Yaya was the spirit of spirits which you can say is a supreme deity whose image is unknowable to human beings and therefore not represented. We can see aspects of this spirit/energy and it is contained in all of creation that can be thanked and praised. The different cemies represent those dieties/aspects. Those aspects (sun, moon, stars, plants, trees, animals, etc.) are called upon and given their due as spirits containing the energy of creation. Most indigenous spiritualities have this belief system.

Before the Europeans came to impose their belief system (also loosely based on "pagan" (Roman, Egyptian, Germanic, Viking, etc.) traditions), native peoples of this hemisphere had sophisticated belief systems that the conquerors did not bother to or want to understand. Much confusion resulted. A syncretism occurred that left most native people with the religion of "Christian" albeit with the very deep spiritual traditions of thousands of years. This deep connection with Creation is what has enabled native people to survive through the centuries.

"The heritage, philosophies, the message that came from God through Nature to the Indian people, these are the same as what Jesus Christ means to Christians. God came through Jesus Christ and his disciples to the people just as he came thru his agents in nature to the Indian people, The latter is called paganism .. yet there is no difference. It is the same God." quote from Allan Wolf Leg (Blackfoot and Roman Catholic) at the Native Religious Traditions, Symposium of Elders and Scholars, 1977.

I cannot speak for others, but during the sweat lodge (that is a purification ceremony) and other ceremonies, you pray for strength, wisdom, clarity, forgiveness and healing for yourself and others to not go down the wrong path away from God and Creation. It is not a "confession" like in the Catholic Church. I have seen and heard grown men cry for help to heal their hearts, minds, friends, families away from what are considered "sins" — to walk down the "good red road". Many great spiritual native leaders have been both Christian and traditionalists. The Lakota holy man Frank Fools Crow comes to mind. He had no problems with the teachings of the Church and his traditional beliefs because as he said, "All of us are taught by the same God, so we should expect to find the same teachings and practices everywhere. The only differences would be determined by where people have lived and what means were available to them." (Fools Crow, Wisdom and Power)

I cannot speak for the Taino spirituality of the past that we know so liitle about, I can only address the present and my part in creation. To be a good person honoring all of the Creator's gifts to life and the universe. I am not a Christan, not because I don't admire the lofty ideals represented by the best of Christianity, but because of its arrogrant and historical treatment of any group that does not conform to its belief system carried out by persons whose interests were, and are, material at best and damaging to creation at its worst.

In closing, gratitude for creation, and understanding and tolerance of each other are our only hope for survival as human beings.

Han han catu,
Rixturey

[Caracoli]

why are valid questions being defined as loaded questions

Some Tainos will support non-Taino religions and customs and

NOT SUPPORT TAINOS TRYING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE

AND YOU ALL KNOW WHO YOU ARE

[Rixturey]

I called it a loaded question because it was sure to "get a rise" out of people. I hesitate to participate in these discussions for that very reason -- they degenerate very quickly.

[Ivy]

It's a shame that it ends up that way. There should be no problem with each "side" stating the facts. What you do with those facts is up to the individual but I don't think we should have to be careful when it comes to issues like this, as long as everyone is respectful.