Before Columbus, just another tribe

[Ray Osborne]

Motecuzoma, also known as Montezuma told Cortez through an interpreter (paraphrased)

"You are not the first person to come here, looking like you do with beards and blue eyes, there are whole tribes like you down by the coast and I will introduce them to you." (Readings from America, out of print) Legend among the Aztecs was that their ancestors had lived in seven caves, when white men with beards, blonde hair and iron tools had organized their small tribe into the most dominant tribe in the Valley of Mexico. Chief among these blond hair giants was a person named "Quetzalcoatl", who was a great teacher and leader, but was eventually defeated, fled to the East and vowed to return someday.

[Ray Osborne]

Agreed Ruben, Case point would be the Kennewick Man

-RKO

[Ray Osborne]

Andreas>any heard of the book of mormon

Ray> Look at the Book of the Hopi Indians. A bearded white God called Panaha who was called the Healer among their people who would return and bring about a new universal brotherhood of man.

-RKO

[Ray Osborne]

Juan >I am sure church started that canibalistic theory. There is no proff of it only hear say.

Ray>It may have been religious rather than diet. Remember the Aztecs who indulged in human
sacrifice as that was religious as giving a offering to their god. Eating another human is indulging
that person's strengths inside the digestor Even Christians have a symbolic cannibalistic ritual in
taking part of the Lord's supper. The wine as the blood of Christ, the bread the Body of Christ.

Juan >Remember that europeans belive all native were saveges with no religoin and no advance society.

Ray> Not all Europeans, some like William Bartram saw them as children of God.

Juan> My answer to that is just look into the mayans.

What about the Mayans?

[ANDREAS]

any heard of the book of mormon.... white skin, from the east. kinda fits... a little too convenient for me though.

[Juan Almonte]

True, amerdians are belive to have crossed over. But I heard that there is talk that like could have been indipendant. So whats not to say life could have started seperatly including in america.


You wrote "The Caribbean's had the peace loving Tainos and at the same time warrior cannibalistic
Caribs. Sad to say but it is all Darwinian, the survival of the fittest."

I am sure church started that canibalistic theory. There is no proff of it only hear say. Remember that europeans belive all native were saveges with no religoin and no advance society. My answer to that is just look into the mayans.

[Anita Pagan]

hmmm...

I grew up in PR, Ponce, as a matter of a fact, but I am sorry to say that things have changed much since I have been living here and my directions may not be the most accurate nor up to date.

[Ray Osborne]

Nanu, Yes I was thinking of going to PR. I understand that Ponce de Leon is buried in an old
church there. Apparently he was killed by an arrow from a Carib. Of course I'm not saying he
was all that noble and pure as he had some issues too but his name is all over this part of Central and South Florida. I was thinking of organizing a historical tourist trip to lay flowers on his grave during
Easter. He named Florida 'Pascua Florida' when from his ships off the coast of Florida his crew could smell the fragrance of flowers. He named our state, "Passover of the Flowers." A beautiful and ancient
name.

I think as a a layperson studying history and anthropology that it is not objective to reflect back into
history and try and achieve some kind of moral superiority. History happened the way it did, there were wrongs and right with all people.

Have you or anybody else here been to PR during Easter? I went to Cozumel for Easter a couple
years ago to visit the temple of the Goddess of fertility. Easter and rebirth is an important occasion
in my belief system.


-RKO

[Anita Pagan]

Many Nations speak of this being the 4th or 5th world of which Atlantis, Lemuria and MU were previously. If natives are the peoples of that time, then evolution would have it all mixed up- right?

I just read Deloria's Red Earth, White Lies and it's interesting to note how there have been findings that don't support anthropologies present history of the world, and these, instead of being studied and see how to adapt the history to include these things, they are pushed aside as anomalies, sabotage or contamination. Deloria looks at historical occurrences present in native oral histories that supposed to have happened thousands of years before man crossed the Bering Strait. How are we to know it if we weren't there? This is just one example...

My point is that science doesn't have all the answers and they present themselves as if they did. Science has it's place and we have a lot of developments to thank science for, but it's a little arrogant to think that man can find all the answers by depending on science.

Ray, are you going to PR anytime soon?

BTW, these are just comments- not personal attacks on anyone- just a different point of view...

[Ray Osborne]

Are not,indigenous people from somewhere else too? Edgar Cayce the sleeping prophet said they were from Atlantis or Mur. Anthropologists have them crossing the Alaska landbridge

The key thing is everybody is from somewhere else and every race, nation or tribe have people that
do good things and all have people that do wicked things. It is all about one tribe of people outdoing
another tribe. The Caribbean's had the peace loving Tainos and at the same time warrior cannibalistic
Caribs. Sad to say but it is all Darwinian, the survival of the fittest.

BTW: Does anybody here know San Juan PR pretty well?

-RKO

[Juan Almonte]

I read because of the shape of some arrow tips they belive that europeans were here first. All this is non-sense. If you go by that then asian's were in europe first as the chinese invented the crossbow thousand of years before europeans. The chinese version even had a cartrige were it self loaded. Bomoorangs are also found on some indigenous people of north and even of south america. So what are we going to say that the austrilion aborgineses were here first too. The bolas ameridan weopon from the argentina. Can also be found on canadian ameridian and even the chinese had there own version. They are trying to rob indigenous people of there history, culture etc etc.